2008-09-30

Why Green Party Supporters Should Vote NDP

“I'd rather have no Green seats and Stephen Harper lose, than a full caucus that stares across the floor at Stephen Harper as prime minister, because his policies are too dangerous.”
--Elizabeth May

13 comments:

JimBobby said...

Whooee! You could have just as easily titled your post "Why Green Party Supporters Should Vote Liberal." The fact is, there is a tiny number of ridings where a strategic shift by GPC supporters would help a challenger defeat a Con. Most of those ridings involve a Liberal challenger.

Like other NDP bloggers, you're taking something said by Elizabeth May out of context. She has made an unequivocal statement regarding strategic voting and most Green supporters know of her statement. You only show your disrespect for Greens with your attempt to generalize and grab Green votes for your preferred party.

If you truly believe in strategic voting and truly want to stop a Harper majority, you should be encouraging some NDP voters in ridings where there is a close Lib-Con race to vote Liberal. Your one-sided partisanship is showing.

JB

catherine said...

There is a lot of nonsense going on about strategic voting. Democratic Space just launched theirs where they provide advice for people who want to defeat Liberals or defeat Conservatives. No advice if you want to defeat a Dipper! No explanation of why you might want to defeat a Liberal or Conservative! Pretty partisan stuff.

At least the various other strategic voting sites provide an explanation of their motivation, such as Harper is bad for the environment and we should try to reduce the number of CPC seats and ensure Harper is not PM.

janfromthebruce said...

Actually Catherine, democraticSPACE is non-partisan, hence it provides the rational for Conservatives (which through research shows that they would rather plump the NDP vote than give their vote to Liberals).

So DemocraticSPACE they recommend Green voters strategically vote this way:

Supporters - 39 ridings
How to vote if you do not want a CONSERVATIVE to win…
BRAMPTON WEST (ON) Vote LIBERAL
CUMBERLAND-COLCHESTER (NS) 1 Vote IND (Bill Casey)
DESNETHÉ-MISSINIPPI-CHURCHILL (SK) Vote LIBERAL
DON VALLEY WEST (ON) Vote LIBERAL
EDMONTON-STRATHCONA (AB) Vote NDP
FREDERICTON (NB) Vote LIBERAL
GASPÉSIE-ÎLES-DE-LA-MADELEINE (QC) Vote BLOC QUÉBÉCOIS
HALTON (ON) Vote LIBERAL
HAUTE-GASPÉSIE-LA-MITIS-MATANE-MATAPÉDIA (QC) Vote BLOC QUÉBÉCOIS
JONQUIÈRE-ALMA (QC) Vote BLOC QUÉBÉCOIS
KITCHENER-CENTRE (ON) Vote LIBERAL
LONDON-FANSHAWE (ON) Vote NDP
LOUIS-HÉBERT (QC) Vote BLOC QUÉBÉCOIS
MISSISSAUGA-ERINDALE (ON) Vote LIBERAL
MISSISSAUGA SOUTH (ON) Vote LIBERAL
MISSISSAUGA-STREETSVILLE (ON) Vote LIBERAL
NEWMARKET-AURORA (ON) Vote LIBERAL
NEW WESTMINSTER-COQUITLAM (BC) Vote NDP
NIPISSING-TIMISKAMING (ON) Vote LIBERAL
NORTH VANCOUVER (BC) Vote LIBERAL
OAK RIDGES-MARKHAM (ON) Vote LIBERAL
OSHAWA (ON) Vote NDP
OTTAWA SOUTH (ON) Vote LIBERAL
PALLISER (SK) Vote NDP
RICHMOND (BC) Vote LIBERAL
RICHMOND-ARTHABASKA (QC) Vote BLOC QUÉBÉCOIS
RIMOUSKI-NEIGETTE-TÉMISCOUATA-L BASQUES (QC) Vote BLOC QUÉBÉCOIS
SAINT BONIFACE (MB) Vote LIBERAL
SAINT JOHN (NB) Vote LIBERAL
SAINT-LAURENT-CARTIERVILLE (QC) 2 Vote LIBERAL
SAINT-MAURICE-CHAMPLAIN (QC) Vote BLOC QUÉBÉCOIS
SASKATOON-ROSETOWN-BIGGAR (SK) Vote NDP
SURREY NORTH (BC) Vote NDP
TOBIQUE-MACTAQUAC (NB) Vote LIBERAL
TROIS-RIVIÈRES (QC) Vote BLOC QUÉBÉCOIS
VANCOUVER QUADRA (BC) Vote LIBERAL
VANCOUVER ISLAND NORTH (BC) Vote NDP
WEST NOVA (NS) Vote LIBERAL
WINNIPEG SOUTH CENTRE (MB) Vote LIBERAL
1 No Green candidate in Cumberland-Colchester.
2 No Green candidate in Saint Laurent-Cartierville.


The vote for the environment site is listed with Elections Canada as a Third Party site and the Financial Agent is Kevin Grandia, who has been responsible for managing many of B.C. Liberal/Socred Premier Gordon Campbell's centre-stage announcements. Before that, Grandia was LIBERAL Richmond MP Raymond Chan's former constituency assistant.

rww said...

I do not believe in strategic voting and I said so here.

I believe everyone who wants to defeat the Harper Conservatives should vote NDP because they are the only real alternative and the only party that can stop Stephen Harper.

It is Elizabeth May that says defeating Harper is more important than electing Green Party candidates. I am simply suggesting Green Party supporters take note of that and do what is necessary to defeat Harper.

JimBobby said...

I am simply suggesting Green Party supporters take note of that and do what is necessary to defeat Harper.

No you're not. Your title says you're telling why Green supporters should vote NDP.

Jan has it right. FWIW, Jan and I seldom agree on much. Democratic space lists 8 ridings where a Green shift to NDP could help defeat Harper. 8 seats out of 308. You're calling for a blanket shift of all Green voters to NDP and you're selling that as a way to defeat Harper. It's entirely disingenuous. You should be telling Greens in those other 31 ridings to vote Liberal. But, nobody expects an NDP hyperpartisan to suggest anyone vote anything except NDP.

I'm really disappointed in this post, Ryan. You aren't even listening to the hyper-partisan but at least sensible Jan, one of the strongest NDP supporters in the blogosphere.

JB

catherine said...

Democratic Space is about as non-partisan as Harper and Layton were in trying to keep May out of the debates. Just because you are protecting more than one partisan interest, does not make you non-partisan. Maybe they found some "research" to justify their partisan choices, but the people I know who sometimes vote strategically do it on a lot more than simply disliking Conservatives or Liberals.

Anonymous said...

Umm.. using the same logic, shouldn't we all just vote Liberal and save the country?

Anonymous said...

Whooee! Can someone please tell that fucknut JimBobby to lose the stupid hick routine? Whooee!

janfromthebruce said...

I believe where Ryan is coming from is his belief that electing liberals does not produce a progressive elected body. New Democrats see time and again, but particularly since 1993 election, that Liberals strategically campaign on a progressive platform (hyping it), but when elected govern conservatively. Those progressive programs just never really see the light of day. eg. national childcare program which was circa 1993, and kept on getting dusted off and recycled for each subsequent campaign.

Also, each election since before Mulroney, Liberals have always used the "fear of the conservative hordes" to scare voters. This election isn't any different, as now it is Harper. Going back in time, one sees the same rhetoric.

So now that you are taking me down memory lane, lets talk about 1988 campaign, where libs ran hard against NAFTA - loss of sovereignty and so on. Libs lost but in 1993 they said they would rejig Nafta and oh, get rid of that nasty GST. They did neither and those were big campaign promises. With NAFTA, they quickly and quietly signed on the bottom line before folks got those election signs off their lawns.

So to wrap-up here, from Ryan's perspective and many NDPers, when it comes to differences, and particularly around economics, there is little difference between libs and cons. In fact, Dion wants to give more corporate taxcuts than Harper right now. Let's talk about how progressive that stance is - not.

So essentially he is saying vote for what you want.

Finally, I find it interesting the pictures being shown online ed of Globe. Those protestors are interested in bread and butter interests, not more corporate welfare or endless war. It thus shows that the NDP is on the right side. Make no mistake here, the immediate personal economic concerns of the kitchen table and community are trumpeting over major Green concerns - right or wrong.
Put bluntly, taxcuts mean squat if you don't have a job. Taxcuts mean squat if one can't afford to buy stuff. They only kick in when they consume.

rww said...

Who is "Ryan" ?

saskboy said...

Can someone be more spineless than to call someone a "fucknut" from an Anonymous account on the Internet?

==

RWW, you can't say you're against strategic voting in one breath, and then TELL Greens to vote NDP in another because it's their ooooonly chance to defeat Harper [even though that's untrue since voting Liberal or Green depending on the riding is another way]. It just doesn't jive.

saskboy said...

Ryan's another NDP blogger who is parroting out of context May quotes to try and win more NDP votes. Not surprising Jan got you confused, she's yet another partisan NDPer caught up in helping Layton over their country.

JimBobby said...

Sorry, Richard. I thought the author of the blog was a Ryan. There was a comment from Ryan and it's gone now but was sent to my email account. That's where I got the Ryan thing. All my chastising of Ryan is now shifted to you. :)

Respect for diversity is one of the 6 Green Fundamental Principles, Anon. Consider it.

JB